nrg_alpha Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 No, you are missing what I'm saying. What would you /lose/ if IE wasn't made? .... Tons of webdev frustration is what you'd lose <he shoots, he scoooores!> Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
448191 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yeah gaming on Linux suck, relatively seen. Driver support for peripherals as well. But that's just because it is not that financially interesting. And to be honest, I hope it stays only moderately interesting Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugJr Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 No, you are missing what I'm saying. What would you /lose/ if IE wasn't made? .... Tons of webdev frustration is what you'd lose <he shoots, he scoooores!> What about pixel positioning? IE atleast can do that right unlike a certain fox! Or how about transparency processing through a browser? Don't see that in FF! They both have their issues. ( Don't need to post any for IE as I'm sure plenty of people will take the initiative to do that.) Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugJr Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yeah gaming on Linux suck, relatively seen. Driver support for peripherals as well. But that's just because it is not that financially interesting. And to be honest, I hope it stays only moderately interesting Why? If a Linux OS gets real popular and they decide to charge for it, you could always use a free and old one right? Or is it because you like to feel all cool by using something only 2% of people use? Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
448191 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 No, it's just that like to avoid the commercialism. Free as in freedom of speech is better than free as in free beer (although you can't fault free beer). Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugJr Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 No, it's just that like to avoid the commercialism. Free as in freedom of speech is better than free as in free beer (although you can't fault free beer). Well, I'm not sure how the TOS goes with Linux distros and source goes, but I thought Linux was pretty much open-source so you could modify it with you and your pals even if it does get commercialized? Unlike Microsoft which nothing can be modified legally. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrg_alpha Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Oh I'm not suggesting Firefox and friends are perfect by any stretch..but in my experience, there's no contest as to which browser made me want to swallow a bag of rusted razor blades, all the while a bunch of rabid coyotes chew my limbs off as a roided-up pissed off lumberjack named BigTim sledge hammers my head in. That's all I'm saying. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugJr Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Oh I'm not suggesting Firefox and friends are perfect by any stretch..but in my experience, there's no contest as to which browser made me want to That sounds rather...erm painful...And what does IE do so bad that it would make you want to do that? I know sometimes I feel like hiding in a corner or something, but I don't think ever to the point where I find it better to die! We should call you an emo, nrg_alpha. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbin Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Corbin, you actually found someone who believes those ads? I thought it was pretty much just a sitcom... (Excluding Mac users of course as that would be an unfair comparison) Perhaps younger people are more likely to believe them. Most people I'm around are 16-20 years old. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugJr Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Corbin, you actually found someone who believes those ads? I thought it was pretty much just a sitcom... (Excluding Mac users of course as that would be an unfair comparison) Perhaps younger people are more likely to believe them. Most people I'm around are 16-20 years old. Ah thats true. Isn't the most common OS in a College (Not college computers but just kiddos) Mac OS? That reminds me of this mac advertisement where PC is pretending to be a pizza to lure unsuspecting kids into buying a PC... So how many people do you know that converted their computer because they saw how technical and non-hip the PC guy is? Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrg_alpha Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Oh I'm not suggesting Firefox and friends are perfect by any stretch..but in my experience, there's no contest as to which browser made me want to That sounds rather...erm painful...And what does IE do so bad that it would make you want to do that? I know sometimes I feel like hiding in a corner or something, but I don't think ever to the point where I find it better to die! We should call you an emo, nrg_alpha. lol, emo... reminds me of this. As far as IE is concerned, yes, they are getting better. I have had my share of issues with IE6 (who hasn't?). But even modern versions.. some css simply didn't behave the same on IE as on the others (read, the others displayed certain css consistently, while IE didn't - no suprise there.. how many webdev books out there contain IE hacks?). The other aspect is with the DOM. In other browsers, I can use javascript to say construct certain divs and whatnot using the W3C's recommended way (not using document.write, but with actual DOM nodes.. IE never played well in that regard.. granted, while I haven't tested things like that out in IE 7/8 I read other people commenting about how the DOM support was still not as full as they would have liked.) Then there's HTML 5 and CSS 3 support.. sure, they are both new.. Nice to see some browsers already integrating some of this stuff..some people were starting to wonder if MS would join in helping shape HTML 5 (which it turns out MS has finally came forward with expressing interest in this). I suppose the question now is, how long do we have to wait till this is supported in IE? Version 9? 10? In general, while IE is definitely getting better, they are still behind the others in many respects. It simply cluster-f#$%s that mind that the biggest browser vendor (who also happens to be the same company that makes the world's most common OS) can't get their act together against the smaller guys. Time till tell when they roll out IE 9 if they have finally caught up with the others in most regards... but something tells me not to hold my breath. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 No, it's just that like to avoid the commercialism. Free as in freedom of speech is better than free as in free beer (although you can't fault free beer). Considering we're quickly losing all our freedoms, free beer is looking more and more appealing. At least help you forget what you can't do no more... Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugJr Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Well, some of the problems I have with FFan boys is that they don't even realize that FF is the problem, not IE, but like CV said, everyone blames top-man. Erm, well I haven't had many problems with IE as far as viewing my site goes, but then again, its a rather basic with limited HTML/CSS so I guess that explains why my hate isn't much. I'm sure one of the reasons IE is so popular still is the reason you stated after your frustration. Most common OS. Haha, win, CV. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
trq Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 A child of 5 could install Vista with all drivers as all you have to do pretty much besides typing in a username and password is hitting the "next" button. For the driver bit, the child would need to know to press the "Install Windows Updates when shutting down.". That includes Video Card drivers, Motherboard drivers, etc. Actually, I was surprised how easy it was to install Vista but I guess its necessary as my motherboard CD didn't even support Vista. Obviously you haven't installed Debian. its the same process, answer questions click next. The only driver I've ever had to install on this my (maybe 12 month old dual core) is the Nvidia drivers and that's only because there not open source. That itself is as simple as... sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx Need to update all software on your system? sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade Its not rocket science, just different to windows. Well, I'm not sure how the TOS goes with Linux distros and source goes, but I thought Linux was pretty much open-source so you could modify it with you and your pals even if it does get commercialized? That is pretty well true. Linux isn't an entire OS though, its just the kernel. A Linux OS consists of Linux + a bunch of other open source projects / softwares. Linux (and all the tools required to make it an OS) are all open source and free however. There is of course nothing to stop people selling there distros, but they still must provide all source code for all the open source parts when doing so. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugJr Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Thorpe, once you have to start inputting text it gets a bit complicated for a 5 year old. How would a 5 year old know what "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx" and "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" means or even does? You don't have to do any commands in Vista/XP but sure you've made your point that they've simplified it alot if thats all you have to do. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
trq Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 Thorpe, once you have to start inputting text it gets a bit complicated for a 5 year old. How would a 5 year old know what "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx" and "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" means or even does? You don't have to do any commands in Vista/XP but sure you've made your point that they've simplified it alot if thats all you have to do. Then simply make an icon to type the commands for you. Thats probably the best point I can make about Linux. Its (completely) customisable. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Thorpe, once you have to start inputting text it gets a bit complicated for a 5 year old. How would a 5 year old know what "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx" and "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" means or even does? You don't have to do any commands in Vista/XP but sure you've made your point that they've simplified it alot if thats all you have to do. dude, most adults have problems writing out text like that. As time goes by, society is focusing more and more on visual communication. Symbols and Icons: hieroglyphs are making a comeback. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugJr Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 dude, most adults have problems writing out text like that. As time goes by, society is focusing more and more on visual communication. Symbols and Icons: hieroglyphs are making a comeback. Err...Could you give me a few examples? Sure Windows Vista you just press a button to install everything, but besides things just turning simplistic, I don't know what you mean. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 The whole computer experience used to be 100% text based. Now it's windows and icons. We used to read books. Now people rarely read, instead opting to watch movies. This is the TLDR century. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 dude, most adults have problems writing out text like that. As time goes by, society is focusing more and more on visual communication. Symbols and Icons: hieroglyphs are making a comeback. Err...Could you give me a few examples? Sure Windows Vista you just press a button to install everything, but besides things just turning simplistic, I don't know what you mean. Uh... if you install Ubuntu it'll flash a notification saying that there are drivers available. Then you click install and enter your password. Of course if you do something like Gentoo, Arch Linux or even Linux From Scratch then these kind of niceties won't happen, but they're not targeting new users anyways. Stop the FUD and try it out yourself. Installing Ubuntu is really easy. If you can install something like Win7 then you can also install Ubuntu. You can even buy computers with Ubuntu installed. It's different and that means you have to adapt, but it's not difficult. Erm, well I haven't had many problems with IE as far as viewing my site goes, but then again, its a rather basic with limited HTML/CSS so I guess that explains why my hate isn't much. That's because people take their time making sure it follows the standards... and then IE. IE is getting much better, but it's still technologically way behind its competitors. Try viewing an SVG file, or how about an XHTML page? Try opening Google Wave. The reason why many web developers dislike IE is because they're too slow at adopting the new standards, which hinders progression and the new things we can do with the web. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Hah, oh dear. And not an internet company? What's the .NET framework all about then? Um, the .NET framework has nothing specifically to do with the internet or networking programming (even tho you can do both with it), it is just the name of there newest general platform framework. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadTechie Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Thorpe, once you have to start inputting text it gets a bit complicated for a 5 year old. How would a 5 year old know what "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx" and "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" means or even does? You don't have to do any commands in Vista/XP but sure you've made your point that they've simplified it alot if thats all you have to do. As Daniel said (use Ubuntu then) Think I like about Linux is that its more of a professional environment, you have more control over more things where as windows seams to think it knows best and almost forced, ie updates, When it comes to things like drivers, Window's and Linux do their but it relies on third parties, and because these parties don't talk to each other problems can occur, Macintosh's are easier because they are basically a package of hardware, so all of the drivers are preloaded on the OS disc's, But I Find Mac OS X like Ubuntu, its got a great GUI and a powerful terminal (Yes Mac OS X is unix Single UNIX Specification (SUS)) Another old MS example: Internet Explorer 6, goes to a web page and the page has some code that requires a Plugin/BHO, IE installs it for you, Firefox, goes to a web page and the page has some code that requires a Plugin/BHO, FF prompts the user to install it, Now IE was easier as it did it for the user, now while this was great news for 5 year olds it was also great news for malware authors, Development side, Same with PHP you have a choice to use any frameworks ie Zend framework, where as with VS your forced to use .Net's (about 40mb) framework, Don't get me wrong, I use all of the above, Window XP, Mac (Classic 9.2.2 & OS X) and (Ubuntu & CentOS), and develop in both of the above PHP and VS and each have their own place, Anyways that my 2 pence Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-943484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keldorn Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Thorpe, once you have to start inputting text it gets a bit complicated for a 5 year old. How would a 5 year old know what "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx" and "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" means or even does? You don't have to do any commands in Vista/XP but sure you've made your point that they've simplified it alot if thats all you have to do. Windows as I've said many times to people, is made to be idiot-proof. Maby it would better to make our programs less idiot proof, then we wouldn't have so many idiots on the internet. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-944112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
.josh Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Thorpe, once you have to start inputting text it gets a bit complicated for a 5 year old. How would a 5 year old know what "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx" and "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" means or even does? You don't have to do any commands in Vista/XP but sure you've made your point that they've simplified it alot if thats all you have to do. Windows as I've said many times to people, is made to be idiot-proof. Maby it would better to make our programs less idiot proof, then we wouldn't have so many idiots on the internet. Sure. Blame people being idiots on Windows. Like most other products/companies out there, research is done and product/service is based off what the average person can do/will do/needs/wants. IOW people aren't stupid because of Windows, Windows is stupid because of people. Quote Link to comment https://forums.phpfreaks.com/topic/178578-ms-are-the-best/page/2/#findComment-944167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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