chantown Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Compared to J2EE, Coldfusion, ASP, and RoR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkyIS Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Are you serious??? I have developed many high-level, mission-critical systems using PHP. ASP on Windows??? ROFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torb Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Why is PHP an amateur/hobby/non-enterprise ? Just because the PHP interpreter itself is free doesn't mean that there isn't money to be made on it, you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 It might appear that way because PHP is so popular among the "hobbyist" crowd. But, that is only true because the barrier to entry for PHP is probably the lowest. Just take a look at the hosting costs for a PHP vs. ASP server. Plus, in my experience there tends to be more and better resources (such as this site) for newcomers into PHP than in, say ASP. ASP, .NET, etc. tend to be used by larger businesses. That is not strictly due to it being a more advanced platform, but because of the support. I have been on calls with MS reps in the middle of the night when we have encountered problems with our mission critiacal environments. If my company was to rely on open source environments, they would not have the same warm and fuzzy feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbullmarky Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 this question kinda gets asked so many times and there are so many counter arguments, alternative examples, etc. All I tell myself - if it's good for Yahoo, Wikipedia, Facebook and otherwise pretty much most of the Top 10 or so popular sites in the world, it's good enough for me. It's not a requirement for popular or powerful software to be overly complex, ridiculously expensive and far out of reach from the masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chantown Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 yahoo uses PHP!!!?? wiki uses PHP?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neylitalo Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 yahoo uses PHP!!!?? wiki uses PHP?? Yes, to both of them. Yahoo uses PHP, as well as MySQL, and all of the Wikimedia projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks, Wiktionary, etc.) use a free (free as in both freedom and free beer) program called MediaWiki, which is written in PHP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 yahoo uses PHP!!!?? wiki uses PHP?? I can't say about yahoo but MediaWiki(which is what wikipedia and a lot of other wikis use) is development in PHP. Why do you act to surprised? I am surprised you are trying to put J2EE in a same category as PHP, I would never use J2EE to contect to my mysql database and output html to a web browser. Also i doubt coldfusion usage is anywhere near PHP/ASP/RoR(I consider these the only 3 languages to use for web development, favoring PHP over all other but i am biased towards PHP). PHP can do anything ASP/RoR can do(and i imagine that is the same with ASP and RoR). I think a lot of people that do ASP use VB to generate the user interface and i think that may be great for prototyping and getting a visual demo up fast but if you are using a program to generate code, that is just bad coding in my opinion. I say this because of a company that we out source and project to. They are using VB and because of the way they are coding, When i make a change to my web service WSDL files, they need to re compile the code or they will get errors(is this because of ASP itself?) and with PHP i don't have to. I am sure this is just because of the way they are coding(cause web service are meant to work like this). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Also i doubt coldfusion usage is anywhere near PHP/ASP/RoR(I consider these the only 3 languages to use for web development, favoring PHP over all other but i am biased towards PHP). RoR isn't a language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noidtluom Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Since I don't know "J2EE, Coldfusion, ASP, and RoR" I'm probably not the best person to ask, but from my experience I find PHP to be a seriously powerful language. I'm not surprised if Yahoo is using it to make their site. I believe people should be more open towards these sorts of things. PHP is one example, and HTML (yeah, that's right, I said HTML). Another is to do with programs, such as Blender3D. It's open-source, about 10MB, free, and has got probably all the features that packages like 3DSMax and Maya stuffed into it. The works done with it are amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Also i doubt coldfusion usage is anywhere near PHP/ASP/RoR(I consider these the only 3 languages to use for web development, favoring PHP over all other but i am biased towards PHP). RoR isn't a language. True but if you are developing a website using ruby(the language) chances are you are using Rails(The framework) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilis_money Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Why is PHP an amateur/hobby/non-enterprise? Compared to J2EE, Coldfusion, ASP, and RoR? For me that question is a direct insult. are you looking for trouble? rebull how about giving him a warning message, to stop his arrogance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilis_money Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 My friend i hope you think what you say first. This is a PHP community. And your question i think doesn't fit. You can differentiate them but please don't belittle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azu Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Why is PHP an amateur/hobby/non-enterprise ? Compared to J2EE, Coldfusion, ASP, and RoR? It's not, idiot. Sorry for the bluntness, but you're really an idiot if you meant what you just said. No offense, just truth. Please save the genepool and thus the future of mankind.. by dieing. NOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbullmarky Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 bilis - if it pays your bills, then who cares if someone else doesnt see that and thinks PHP is "amateur"? Azu - your response is a bit off key considering a) the OP's question is neither offensive or b) is actually a reasonable question and has alot of truth - PHP IS the weapon of choice for hobbyists/amateurs, no two ways about it. Calling someone an idiot for having an opinion or raising a topic actually comes back right at both of you. I don't think the topic at hand is trying to provoke , and I won't (and pretty sure none of the other mods/admins will either) be handing out any warnings at all. PHP is a great language for starters, but equally great to continue in your career if you choose to churn out some pretty top notch apps. Yahoo, wikipedia, etc, are just proof of what can be achieved. We're all in this game ultimately to make money and to make a living, so consider this: With the XBox360, PS3, PC, etc all churning out some great looking games, all initially coded in C++ or whatever low level "enterprise" languages, why is it that some of the best and most addictive games are either written in Flash or are ran through a Spectrum (or other retro system) emulator???? My point? It doesn't matter what your choice is - nobody is going to shy away from your great idea just because it's not written in an free/cheap/expensive language. Best thing to do - get on with your job, enjoy what you do, and quit bitching about what is best or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilis_money Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I dunno rebull but he called PHP for amateur? It is a 10 years old plus plus language. ROR it is only 3 years old plus plus language. ASP it is not even cross platform And you can find more jobs with PHP than the other languages, it is very obvious. PHP is easy to learn but it is not for amateur. Let him try to study OOP, REGEX and PATTERN. Now let me see if he can still say for amateur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neylitalo Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Gentlemen, there are ways to say the same things more civilly. bilis_money: He wasn't aware that PHP is used by many very profitable companies, but that's no reason to get upset. At one point, I didn't know that PHP was perfectly capable of making money, either, but it's just something you have to learn. Instead of arguing, let's just try to educate him, shall we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chantown Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 Sorry if it seemed I'm trying to make a negative statement I was just wondering, since my professor at MIT laughed at me when I told him that's the only "web language" I know (for a project). (And then he suggested java, RoR...he doesn't even know PHP...and he specializes in web technologies/DMS) I personally love PHP because its open source, and because it's so easy to find information about it online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 my professor at MIT ... doesn't even know PHP ... and he specializes in web technologies And some people think academics are out of touch with the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 my professor at MIT ... doesn't even know PHP ... and he specializes in web technologies And some people think academics are out of touch with the real world. I remember my programming teaching telling me that Java was going to replace C++ back in 2001(LOL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfmason Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I would also like to point out that Ruby and RoR are both free and opensource, much like php. RoR has somewhat set the standard for web development frameworks. If you look at the major php frameworks, most of the time they will credit rails as the framework they are modeled after. Even pylons, the python framework , has on it's home page that it is "a development framework frequently compared to rails". I feel one of the main reasons that Rails is one of the leading frameworks for web development is that it is extremely easy to use and cuts down on development time(cost) drastically. That and ruby, the language, is very elegant when compared most others. However, with rails, unless you use a mongrel cluster and apache with mod_proxy + mod_proxy_balancer you would see a drop in performance, on a large scale app, when compared to php or python. I doubt that you will find many large scale sites such as google, yahoo and amazon using RoR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azu Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I'm sorry, I didn't mean to lose my temper. Just please don't attack PHP, insulting it and calling it "amateur". That's just not cool.. if it sucks so bad then make a better free/open source scripting language. I doubt you can. <-- at topic starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Fire Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Yea, I don't use RoR for the reason pointed out in that it is slower than PHP. I also think Ruby itself is a little akword for me(i come from a C++ programming background) as where everything is an object(i meant a int does not need to be an object, that is a bit of an overkill). I will say that PHP is for sure less structured then Ruby(i mean there are some function that have both a needle and haystack but their order in not always the same but i rather have the little extra performance that PHP i think has(but can't say that as a fact). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilis_money Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I was just wondering, since my professor at MIT laughed at me when I told him that's the only "web language" I know (for a project). Ooh, i understood now it is not you the problem it is your professor. Please tell him that all of these web languages has each own specialties. It is ok to differentiate, but to ridicule it's not cool... My friend you are welcome here... Remind your professor to open his mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilis_money Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Instead of arguing, let's just try to educate him, shall we? ok, i think i was a little over reacting... no problem i'll go with your idea bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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