teng84 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I tried to bid in freelancing section but I was amazed how this guys price each project as well as the bidder. I'm living in Philippines where dollars has greater value but STILL if i tried to go with those project still it seems like im wont earn anything. imagine 200 dollars for a whole site and sometimes some crazy NOOB even try to give 100 $ . is this true? Can anybody here tell me whats going on.. I mean an idea WHY this developer accept this crazy low budget site and also I believe the owner of this sites know how much is the real price of each project..? Crazy I cant bid ??? Just an idea guys.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilis_money Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 They bid like that because some countries like indonesia and etc.. that their money is very very low v.s. the dollar. If you think it's crazy then don't bid. I guess your bidding on getafreelancer.com right? I've been there before but i also noticed that their prices are really stupid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neylitalo Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 And other people don't really understand how much the finished product is really worth, or they seriously misunderestimate the amount of work that will be required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris92 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I accept next to nothing because I'm 15 and $200 for 3 days work is ALLOT to me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redarrow Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 most off the time i do it for nothink if it a easy project just for fun....... But in the real world i charge what it worth, example a proper business site £600 2 days work and i mean all day and all night..... <<<< css,html,php,seo perfect for a personal web site i charge around £200 for 5 pages....... html, css no php at all if requested add another £150......with seo perfect chris92 age dont mean nothink some of the best programmers in japan are only 12 your be amazed there allready signed for the big boys! ( as it goes there many companys business supporting programming camps for realy educated children from the age of 10 amazing i say) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teng84 Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 And other people don't really understand how much the finished product is really worth, or they seriously misunderestimate the amount of work that will be required. LOL i jut cant imagine why they are paying that low if they want good site.. developing real good site needs a lot of work I mean you have to consider server side script as well as client side and should take some time. Ok I tried to search on freelancing section of this forum thinking i might get an extra job but most of the price i saw are 100,200 and some are 50 dollars.. I accept next to nothing because I'm 15 and $200 for 3 days work is ALLOT to me . is this valid reason ? If my clients would be in the philippines then ill accept 200 $ for small project but knowing that this project are owned by big countries and will earn a lot i believe its stupid to help these person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris92 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I accept next to nothing because I'm 15 and $200 for 3 days work is ALLOT to me . is this valid reason ? If my clients would be in the philippines then ill accept 200 $ for small project but knowing that this project are owned by big countries and will earn a lot i believe its stupid to help these person. The way I look at it is, if I were to work partime for 3 days I would be lucky earning 50$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcombs_31 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 In my opinion this is a big part of the problem. Teenagers calling themselves programmers and developers and the naive clients that believe they can turn out quality work. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking, a 15 year old is not going to turn out quality work and doesn't really understand the value of money or effort. I think hobby and business need to have a clear distinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris92 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I just think allot of you older people are jealous that 15 year olds get hired as freelance allot and return high quality websites. I my self have been for the past 2 years aswell as translating into different languages (Dutch, German, French, English) for my clients meanwhile you guys are so old and slow you never have any new fresh ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameYin Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I'm 16 and I just got hired on Saturday for Avatrix or something and they will pay be by project size. 200-1000 dollars a week about...so yea age doesn't matter. ;o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel0 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 That doesn't mean your code is good. And the client doesn't know whether the code is good because if s/he was a programmer then s/he would've just written it herself/himself. I've never done any freelance work (I don't want to) but from what I hear and what I can see clients would rather pay less money and get what in reality is a piece of shit rather than pay for quality. Truth is that in the long run they'll just have to pour more money into it in order to maintain it, because what they paid for was non-modular, interdependent, hard to maintain, crap code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revraz Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 When you start making over $200k a year, then come back here an post "us old people are jealous". I just think allot of you older people are jealous that 15 year olds get hired as freelance allot and return high quality websites. I my self have been for the past 2 years aswell as translating into different languages (Dutch, German, French, English) for my clients meanwhile you guys are so old and slow you never have any new fresh ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameYin Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 If that was directed towards me, then I have one word to say *16* and 5 more words also *Have not gone to college* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerRobot Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Umm, frankly, if any of you at 15-16 believe the quality of what you are producing will compete with someone who is a full time freelancer then i suggest you need to think again. Im 18. I don't do freelancing, though i'm sure i could. That said, i am under no illusions that the kind of thing i could be producing is probably not going to be quite as polished as that of other more experience people. And that is one of the key things here: experience. Furthermore, you are almost certainly going to get a more professional experience from someone older. It's not all just about programming ability. And gameyin: given that the quote revraz posted was by Chris92, is it particularly likely that it was aimed at you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zq29 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I just think allot of you older people are jealous that 15 year olds get hired as freelance allot and return high quality websites. I my self have been for the past 2 years aswell as translating into different languages (Dutch, German, French, English) for my clients meanwhile you guys are so old and slow you never have any new fresh ideas. No, I think another part of the problem is that people who charge extremely low rates are undervaluing our trade. That's why you get the odd person who says, "I'm not paying you x thousands of pounds/dollars for a website when my mate down the road can do it for about a hundred". If you truly believe you can class your work at the same level of those of us that do this for over 10 hours a day, five days a week - Why not charge a sensible amount to reflect that? You're undervaluing yourself as well, why make $200 in 3 days when you can make $2000 for doing the same amount of work? I'm sure your outlook will change on the whole situation when you're older, $200 may seem like a lot now but I wouldn't even get out of bed for that - Let alone three days of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenway Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Programming is just like art paintings -- "value" is completely and utterly subjective. Fortunately, we'll never be in the same league as you or competing with you for clients, so it's doesn't really matter to us how you value (or de-value) your own work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teng84 Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 thats one thing im pointing out because of these low bidder some stupid people think that wed development as well as system development is that easy.. If all programmer will give their average price then everything will be reasonable.. I still remember when i bid for one site for a thousand dollar(this local so it should cost 40000pesos) but he told me like he will try to find another person. and so he found one which offers 10000pesos and that is still negotiable but when i look on how he code the site it looks so weird I believe the developer find it real hard to create a shopping cart so he do it on his own weird ways. MEMBERS or posters in freelancing section are very brave to post low budget site because they know someone will bite on it and to younger developer i guess im still part of these.. OLD programmers works flawlessly and almost perfectly and its very impossible for younger one to reach that level.... what i was saying is that this is not just coding its all about everything that relates system development.. and note its quite impossible for big firms to hire fresh mind and reject skilled person in this industry this is not event where younger ideas are being welcome this is development where OLD ideas always works best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFilmGod Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I'm 16, and I believe I make "decent quality" websites. Of course it is no where as good as the websites as some of our members on this site create - most notably jcombs_31. Taking $100 for 2 days of work is outrageous. Most of all when the scumbags who bid so low are actually doing it as a "hobby." What is a guy suppose to do when he codes for a living? Quality should prevail a cheap price, but it doesn't. For my public school district website - school taxes range around $4,000 US in the area - and the school pulls out the biggest piece of $hit website. - ww-p.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardyandkari Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I'm 16, and I believe I make "decent quality" websites. Of course it is no where as good as the websites as some of our members on this site create - most notably jcombs_31. Taking $100 for 2 days of work is outrageous. Most of all when the scumbags who bid so low are actually doing it as a "hobby." What is a guy suppose to do when he codes for a living? Quality should prevail a cheap price, but it doesn't. For my public school district website - school taxes range around $4,000 US in the area - and the school pulls out the biggest piece of <<POO>> website. - ww-p.org i saw that site in another post...i still think it's HILLARIOUS!!! the way that the link fonts change to white as you roll over them is BEEEEEEEUUUUTIFUL... |@~~~ (thats me barfing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibberous Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 To answer your question, no, that isn't the real price of websites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous52090 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 gameyin, chris, If you guys think for a minute you could produce the same quality code any of the moderators / full time developers here could produce then you are just crazy and quite obviously still have a lot of growing up to do. I myself am only 17, and don't have a problem admitting that professional developers are going to be able to develop code ten fold better than mine - that is just logic and common sense. Please stop acting so immature and grow up a little, you are just making everyone else (including me) in your age group look like an idiot with your arrogance. Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Little Guy Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I think that most customers/clients basically say "Build me something that works". They don't care if it is good or poor coding as long as it does what they want. so... that is why they go with the "cheaper" guy. If you want more, brag about how much better your work is compared to the "cheaper guy", post links to your work. Its a job interview and to get the job you need to sell your self. A kid doesn't have bills to pay so they can charge more. Most 12 year olds can not get a job at minimum wage, it is mostly 15-16+ and if they did get a job it would be minimum wage $6.50-$7.00 that is $260-$280 40 hours (without taxes taken out). $60 more for 30 extra hours of work, or $200 for 10 hours worth of web work (~$20.00/hr). To someone who doesn't have a job, or has a minimum wage job, that makes the $280/week at a laboring job retail/food this is 100 times easier to do, because there are no stupid people complaining about something you have control of, such as the price of a T.V. When you were 12-16 how much did you make in 10 hours at your job? $200? Did you sit in front of a computer screen? was the only job related exercise: moving your fingers? If a 12 year old knows how to program and is taking jobs away from 30+ yr. old programmers, he is pretty damn good, and if he keeps it up, he will be making the big dollars (but he probably wont graduate form high school with any friends). Soon he will then start realizing that $20/hr isn't enough for a house, car, insurance, etc. and he will start to increase his rates, but then a new 12 year old will come into the picture and do the same thing to him. I basically feel, that if you charge more, and don't get selected, that means that you were either WAY too high, or that they were not worried about programming quality, but something that "Works" and get the job done. If you charge less, don't get selected then that means they are looking for quality. Hope that all makes sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous52090 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I think that most customers/clients basically say "Build me something that works". ... I agree that there will always be some people who look for the cheaper route. But it won't pay off in the end. Because how well something works is directly tied to how well it is programmed. Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardyandkari Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 there are people who want "something that works" and people that want quality code, not the easy, quick way out. if they are looking for quality, they won't go with a kid who doesn't know the value of what he/she is doing... personally, i am charging around $250 for a 5 page site, but that's because i am working 40-50 hours at my job, and dont have time to get "proficient" at what i do...a basic site is all that i offer, and that's all that they get. i dont do php coding for money, just to learn...so what i make ends up to be pretty good (html is an easy language and dreamweaver makes it even easier ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilis_money Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Sorry guys i don't want to argue with 15 or 16 years old. ~sigh~. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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